Well said! Also, the fact people theorized the shooter could've been a trans girl seems to be an admission that this kind of violence is often the result of men and boys groomed by patriarchy and colonialism, yet they can only acknowledge it if they can scapegoat the problem onto trans women...
I don't get how anyone can hate anyone that much. Other than complete psychopathy my main explanation is constant SA/ general abuse from every major relationship they've had with women. The coma baby factory thing managed to be more horrible than any kind of slavery I've heard of. And yes theres women who hate men pretty harshly but other than some especially dangerous & vicious men the Ted Bundys & Dominique Pelicots of the world I haven't heard of a general desire to torture or enslave men. Men invented the atom bomb & pretty much every other horribly destructive & cruel tool so I don't know what the heck they are talking about.
I love and respect women, but she’s not the first woman to mass shoot, and both men and women are capable of inflicting physical harm to the opposite sex, although men are more likely so. Human psychology is complicated and dividing them by gender into groups and stereotyping them is over simplification.
is there a specific part of my piece that this is in reply to? i don't typically boil this down to psychology, this is an effect of socialization under patriarchy. i hear people say that both genders are capable of violence but the facts are men commit over 85% of all violent crime, 99% of all sexual violence, over 90% of all mass shootings, and something like over 75% of all homicides. the real over simplification is saying "well, both do it" without analyzing which gender is disproportionately committing these crimes and why that is the case.
I did say men are more likely to do harm, but I’m not sure if it’s patriarchy, I have to do some research on that, though my initial belief would be biology.
So after a little bit of digging and pondering, I'm not sure I'm knowledgeable enough to comment on this subject at a deeper level at the moment.
But I'll say this, I've retyped this reply a few times and each time after reviewing I have to remove everything, because I find myself repeating the word "women" in ways I'm not sure I like, then I realized a lot of the research articles on this subject are written by men, I guess naturally some view could be biased? Example : https://www.frontiersin.org/journals/psychology/articles/10.3389/fpsyg.2017.00338/full where women clothing is to be blamed? I think people should dress however they like without fearing getting attacked.
I hope more men can recognize the problem and treat women with the respect that they deserve. I also admire women who voice their concerns and point out the problem.
i appreciate you acknowledging that you didn't have all of the information, and i agree that a lot of research in general is dominated by men and can be biased. appreciate the discussion.
it’s worth pointing out here that radfemhitler’s username on twitter is “hollowearthterf”, and that she has confirmed multiple times, on twitter, that she holds beliefs about LGBT people, jews, black people, and muslims that are consistent with her persona
This part captures really well the absurdity of your thesis:
"Can you think of a group of women who behave in this way and spend their lives fantasizing of ways to harm men? Can you point towards a movement of women who believe men should be kept in breeding barns and raped until they’re no longer useful? Can you show even one statement from a woman that sounds anywhere near as vile as this?"
Yes, its very easy to find this. Go to any number of female oriented online forums, and you will see that the majority of content and engagement on them is in this vein.
The man-hating is so blatant, I really cannot comprehend how you can even suggest that this isn't taking place.
It's not some insolated places, there are multiple sites on the biggest forums on the internet, singularly dedicated to that.
And not only that, pretty much every single opinion forum is infested with this kind of "femcels".
The term is so appropriate, not because the dynamic of how they became this way is the same, but because they exhibit the same behavior: an irrational hatred for the other sex, religiously practiced via the internet.
Some deranged people on the internet making up theories about a school shooter don't give you license to make up deranged stories of your own.
Like I said: go to any number of online forums exclusively geared towards women.
No need for a website that aggregates the worst of it.
That is actually the most absurd part of this article. They are so present everywhere that the entire premise of this article is weird.
Just like you can enjoy the incel misogyny on the corners of the internet they inhabit, so can you see femcels on all these forums. Be it reddit, quora or worst of all twitter.
For some reason I have the strong inkling you will find ample examples on your homepage.
there’s your mistake, incels are not only on their specific forums where the worst of it resides. they are everywhere harassing women on all sides of the internet. they’re not secluded to forums at all.
i provided my evidence and examples, i am now asking you to do the same if you want to make a counter claim. if you can’t and you expect me to do your labor for you, i will just assume everything you’ve said is bullshit.
I think both femcels and incels are harmful, although clearly one movement is more hateful and destructive than the other as you described. However, I do have an issue with the "manifesto" that was released by the school shooter. It seems like, beyond her disdain for men as a whole, she also specifically wanted black men and politicians wiped out. It speaks a lot to how she was raised, and it poses concerns as to what type of women she would want to survive in her utopia. Her motives here clearly go beyond gender wars.
I posted a screenshot from the twitter account that posted the "manifesto" saying it was fake and they made it up. The content in the manifesto was horrid, but there's little evidence to suggest this came from the shooter. I made this very clear. What is officially reported is that she posted a document but it was unable to be accessed by anyone who didn't have a password or special link. I think that femcels are harmful to themselves, and the idea that they'll never be good enough for male attention is harmful to other women or young girls. I don't believe femcels are a hate group towards men or any of the other claims, as I laid out.
Ok fair enough! I missed your caption and was trying to follow along when reading the screenshot part. It seems like we didn’t know her true motivations then. Obviously still can’t condone the shooting part, but I do agree that for the most part, a lot of young femcels hate men because oftentimes to be “loved” by a man does not equate to respect.
I really enjoyed reading this essay, thank you!! If you don't mind, I have a clarificatory question: when you say that the shooter isn't a femcel, and that femcels are not [nazis, incels, TERFs, radfems, feminists, etc.], do you mean to say that the term "femcel" ought to/is used to invoke the meaning of the term "incel" as it was originally coined? And, in preservation of this original meaning/avoiding it becoming synonymous as the female counterpart to contemporary inceldom to parse out "femcel" from the terms/ideologies/groups commonly associated with it?
If this is, in fact, what you're doing, I find it a really interesting move--albeit, I'm someone who considers themselves more of a "volcel" (as a less gendered term). I think it's important to either create or preserve language of this sort seeing as we have no real terminology to refer to "those who are incompatible with/experience significant difficulty navigating cisheteronormative, allosexist, etc. society", which *doesn't have to* entail subscribing to fascistic ideologies. If anything, I think we *need* this language to articulate and call out the diffuse ways that oppression and bigotry seep into our dating/relationship practices, and how this leaves marginalized folks even more vulnerable/isolated in a society that prioritizes sexual/romantically-exclusive monogamy as the be-all and end-all of intimacy.
Well said! Also, the fact people theorized the shooter could've been a trans girl seems to be an admission that this kind of violence is often the result of men and boys groomed by patriarchy and colonialism, yet they can only acknowledge it if they can scapegoat the problem onto trans women...
I don't get how anyone can hate anyone that much. Other than complete psychopathy my main explanation is constant SA/ general abuse from every major relationship they've had with women. The coma baby factory thing managed to be more horrible than any kind of slavery I've heard of. And yes theres women who hate men pretty harshly but other than some especially dangerous & vicious men the Ted Bundys & Dominique Pelicots of the world I haven't heard of a general desire to torture or enslave men. Men invented the atom bomb & pretty much every other horribly destructive & cruel tool so I don't know what the heck they are talking about.
Incels are not even celibate; they use pornography for sure. Modern Pornography creates incels. 100 % They are pornified bachelors.
I love and respect women, but she’s not the first woman to mass shoot, and both men and women are capable of inflicting physical harm to the opposite sex, although men are more likely so. Human psychology is complicated and dividing them by gender into groups and stereotyping them is over simplification.
is there a specific part of my piece that this is in reply to? i don't typically boil this down to psychology, this is an effect of socialization under patriarchy. i hear people say that both genders are capable of violence but the facts are men commit over 85% of all violent crime, 99% of all sexual violence, over 90% of all mass shootings, and something like over 75% of all homicides. the real over simplification is saying "well, both do it" without analyzing which gender is disproportionately committing these crimes and why that is the case.
Daaaaaaamn... roasted haha. This was amazing to read.
I did say men are more likely to do harm, but I’m not sure if it’s patriarchy, I have to do some research on that, though my initial belief would be biology.
no no, there is no biological evidence that indicates men are violent, that's bioessentialism. this is not a narrative to spread irresponsibly.
So after a little bit of digging and pondering, I'm not sure I'm knowledgeable enough to comment on this subject at a deeper level at the moment.
But I'll say this, I've retyped this reply a few times and each time after reviewing I have to remove everything, because I find myself repeating the word "women" in ways I'm not sure I like, then I realized a lot of the research articles on this subject are written by men, I guess naturally some view could be biased? Example : https://www.frontiersin.org/journals/psychology/articles/10.3389/fpsyg.2017.00338/full where women clothing is to be blamed? I think people should dress however they like without fearing getting attacked.
I hope more men can recognize the problem and treat women with the respect that they deserve. I also admire women who voice their concerns and point out the problem.
i appreciate you acknowledging that you didn't have all of the information, and i agree that a lot of research in general is dominated by men and can be biased. appreciate the discussion.
it’s worth pointing out here that radfemhitler’s username on twitter is “hollowearthterf”, and that she has confirmed multiple times, on twitter, that she holds beliefs about LGBT people, jews, black people, and muslims that are consistent with her persona
This part captures really well the absurdity of your thesis:
"Can you think of a group of women who behave in this way and spend their lives fantasizing of ways to harm men? Can you point towards a movement of women who believe men should be kept in breeding barns and raped until they’re no longer useful? Can you show even one statement from a woman that sounds anywhere near as vile as this?"
Yes, its very easy to find this. Go to any number of female oriented online forums, and you will see that the majority of content and engagement on them is in this vein.
The man-hating is so blatant, I really cannot comprehend how you can even suggest that this isn't taking place.
It's not some insolated places, there are multiple sites on the biggest forums on the internet, singularly dedicated to that.
And not only that, pretty much every single opinion forum is infested with this kind of "femcels".
The term is so appropriate, not because the dynamic of how they became this way is the same, but because they exhibit the same behavior: an irrational hatred for the other sex, religiously practiced via the internet.
Some deranged people on the internet making up theories about a school shooter don't give you license to make up deranged stories of your own.
okay, so go ahead and find those examples of women speaking in the same way as the evidence i supplied from incel.is and bring it back to me.
Like I said: go to any number of online forums exclusively geared towards women.
No need for a website that aggregates the worst of it.
That is actually the most absurd part of this article. They are so present everywhere that the entire premise of this article is weird.
Just like you can enjoy the incel misogyny on the corners of the internet they inhabit, so can you see femcels on all these forums. Be it reddit, quora or worst of all twitter.
For some reason I have the strong inkling you will find ample examples on your homepage.
there’s your mistake, incels are not only on their specific forums where the worst of it resides. they are everywhere harassing women on all sides of the internet. they’re not secluded to forums at all.
i provided my evidence and examples, i am now asking you to do the same if you want to make a counter claim. if you can’t and you expect me to do your labor for you, i will just assume everything you’ve said is bullshit.
I think both femcels and incels are harmful, although clearly one movement is more hateful and destructive than the other as you described. However, I do have an issue with the "manifesto" that was released by the school shooter. It seems like, beyond her disdain for men as a whole, she also specifically wanted black men and politicians wiped out. It speaks a lot to how she was raised, and it poses concerns as to what type of women she would want to survive in her utopia. Her motives here clearly go beyond gender wars.
I posted a screenshot from the twitter account that posted the "manifesto" saying it was fake and they made it up. The content in the manifesto was horrid, but there's little evidence to suggest this came from the shooter. I made this very clear. What is officially reported is that she posted a document but it was unable to be accessed by anyone who didn't have a password or special link. I think that femcels are harmful to themselves, and the idea that they'll never be good enough for male attention is harmful to other women or young girls. I don't believe femcels are a hate group towards men or any of the other claims, as I laid out.
Ok fair enough! I missed your caption and was trying to follow along when reading the screenshot part. It seems like we didn’t know her true motivations then. Obviously still can’t condone the shooting part, but I do agree that for the most part, a lot of young femcels hate men because oftentimes to be “loved” by a man does not equate to respect.
I really enjoyed reading this essay, thank you!! If you don't mind, I have a clarificatory question: when you say that the shooter isn't a femcel, and that femcels are not [nazis, incels, TERFs, radfems, feminists, etc.], do you mean to say that the term "femcel" ought to/is used to invoke the meaning of the term "incel" as it was originally coined? And, in preservation of this original meaning/avoiding it becoming synonymous as the female counterpart to contemporary inceldom to parse out "femcel" from the terms/ideologies/groups commonly associated with it?
If this is, in fact, what you're doing, I find it a really interesting move--albeit, I'm someone who considers themselves more of a "volcel" (as a less gendered term). I think it's important to either create or preserve language of this sort seeing as we have no real terminology to refer to "those who are incompatible with/experience significant difficulty navigating cisheteronormative, allosexist, etc. society", which *doesn't have to* entail subscribing to fascistic ideologies. If anything, I think we *need* this language to articulate and call out the diffuse ways that oppression and bigotry seep into our dating/relationship practices, and how this leaves marginalized folks even more vulnerable/isolated in a society that prioritizes sexual/romantically-exclusive monogamy as the be-all and end-all of intimacy.